“A Conversation Through Time” It was 5:45 p.m. The streets of San Francisco were busy as always in 1991. As the sun was going down, a gigantic wave of cloud engulfed the sun. A cool breeze, however delicate, was blowing like a whirl. A man, wearing a black coat and a muffler around his neck, walking and heading towards the railway station, Wolfgang Weingart he was. He was in joy and all set for the great event at Letterform Archive. But to his surprise, the weather got worse in a split second. Wolfgang saw the threatening clouds and could sense a cloudburst. He immediately tried to get a taxi but failed and subsequently had to stop there at a café. After entering the café, Wolfgang could smell the aroma of caramel and nuts and brewed coffee. Unanticipatedly, he noticed a senior citizen sitting alone at a table. He was wearing a wool jumper; a jacket hung on his chair. Wolfgang had a rough guess that probably it was the prominent American graphic designer Saul Bass, who was talking to a waiter. He then called the same waiter! Wolfgang: Hey! Waiter: Good evening, sir. How can I serve you? Wolfgang: Is that Saul Bass? Waiter: Yeah. He is. Saul Bass was born on 8-May-1920 and died on 25-April-1996. He was an American graphic designer and Oscar-winning filmmaker, best known for his design of; motion-picture title-sequence which, we call kinetic typography, film posters, and corporate logos (Bauer, 2021). Wolfgang: (quite excited and nervous) Waiter: Sir? Umm, would you like to have a seat somewhere? Wolfgang: Thanks! I will get one. Wolfgang: (shaking and slowly impending towards the man of his doubt) Wolfgang: Excuse me, sir? Saul: (looks at him) Yes? Wolfgang: I am amazed to meet you. I am an enormous fan of yours. Saul: Hahaha, thanks. Do you want to grab a seat? Wolfgang: umm, yeah, sure. It will be an honour to sit beside you. Saul: (takes a sip of his coffee) Waiter! Can you give him a cup of coffee? So, what brings you here? Wolfgang: Ugh, I was off for an event, and this bloody weather had to upset me now. Saul: Event? What kind of event? Saul: Oh, sorry. I forgot to ask your name. Wolfgang: Ahh! I am Wolfgang, Wolfgang Weingart.

Wolfgang Weingart was born on 6-February-1941 and died on 12-July-2021. Wolfgang Weingart is an internationally recognized figure for his iconic body of work in the field of graphic designing and typography. His work is characterized as Swiss Typography. Moreover, he has been deemed the pioneer of ‘New Wave’ or Swiss Punk typography (FamousGraphicDesigners.org, 2019). Waiter: Excuse me, sir, what would you like to have? Wolfgang: Bring a cup of cappuccino with some extra sugar. Wolfgang: (looks at Saul) Sorry about that. Saul: (taking another sip of his coffee) So, what do you do, Wolfgang (asks in confusion)? Wolfgang: Well, basically, I am a graphic designer, particularly a typographer, also a teacher. I love creating posters and using photo montages and image layering to create new tones and shapes (Nelson, 2021). Saul: Oh, excellent. Are you that, umm, the inventor of Weingart Style? ha-ha Wolfgang: Hahaha, that’s a fascinating story. Saul: (looking outside the window) I think we have enough time on our hands. Wolfgang: So apparently, as I said, I am a teacher, and I never forced a style upon my students. I started my career with Swiss Typography; however, I never intended to make a style. My students misinterpreted and spread it around as Weingart style (Eye Magazine, 1991). Saul: Shall I say your students played a crucial role in you becoming famous? Wolfgang: (chuckles) I am not going to say not that, to be honest. It all happened by accident. Waiter: Gentlemen, sorry to interrupt the conversation. Here’s your coffee, sir. Wolfgang: Oh, thank you so much. Wolfgang: So, as we all know, you are a graphic designer who has done many posters for movies. You have also invented kinetic typography. How did you come up with this idea; what do you think typography is heading? While animation pioneers like Georges Méliès and Walt Disney paved the way in the early 20th century for later filmmakers (like Hawks) to infuse inanimate live-action objects with new energies: Saul Bass (1920-1996) who first realized their potential in the modern film; Bass, a graphic designer by trade, was credited, with overseeing the first extensive use of kinetic typography in film, particularly in connection with Alfred Hitchcock’s 1959 film North by Northwest (Saul Bass: Thought Made Visual (1958-60), 2012). Saul: So, the thing is, whenever we watch a movie, the first few frames are just introductions that no one cares: I felt the audience should engage with the film from the first frame and don’t lose interest. And one evening, when I was working for Otto Preminger, the film director? Wolfgang: Oh yeah, of course. Who wouldn’t know him?

Otto Ludwig Preminger was born on 5-December-1905 and died on 23- April-1986. He was an AustroHungarian-born film director. Otto started his career as a stage director. He directed more than 35 feature films: in a five-decade career after leaving the theatre. When he was young, he acted outside school hours in plays in Vienna and then became an actor in Hollywood. He did many movies like “The pied piper” in 1942 (Krebbs, 1986).

Saul: Mhmm. So, I was working on Carmen Jones and The Man with The Golden Arm; we both shared a gaze and asked each other, “Why not make it move?” (The Academy, 2015). Also, I feel - typography will be appreciated much more than now as there was no art school in our time since many people are trying to explore new techniques. However, I feel the design should be simple (Boston, 1986). Saul: What do you think? Wolfgang: Being a typographer, I feel “The simpler the assignment, the more difficult the solution”. (Smith, 2014). People nowadays are just making everything simple, losing most of the details and meaning of a design. Although, I do agree that some designs or typography should be simple and elegant. I, I, I think that you can teach and learn about typography. In other words, a designer can look at the grammar of a sentence or a text without studying its meaning (Neugraphic, 2021). Saul: Nevertheless, I have seen and heard some of your work too: they seem pretty decent. Although, I want to know about the ‘New Wave’. Wolfgang: (shy) It’s your greatness that you liked my work. Wolfgang: So, as I said, it was never intended. However, the ‘New Wave’ is - a mixture of styles that combined traits of Swiss Modernism, Postmodern contrast, harmonies, lots of geometric shapes and isometric patterns (Heller, 2016). New Wave is - the movement where graphic designers moved away from the international style. The focus of New Wave design is more on playfulness rather than the grid (Jacobsen, 2018). Saul: So, you are trying to say people are moving away from today’s style? Wolfgang: Ahh. Hmm. I’d say people have already moved a lot away from today’s style. New styles and designs - are created almost every day. Graphic design will evolve a lot. Although, people are becoming more limited. Saul: What do you mean people have moved away from today’s style? Wolfgang: As you know, after World War II, most of the designers in Germany and Switzerland systemized Modernist Graphic design into Swiss- Design, or what we called the International Typographic Style. They made asymmetrical layouts that embraced the prewar designers’ preference for sans-serif. There was harmony and clarity. Josef Muller-Brockmann also played a vital role to define this style. Saul: Oh yeah. I remember. At that time, we were, trying to synthesize the concepts from modern art into highly visual statements. That is when I came up with Kinetic Typography (Meggs, 2021).

Wolfgang: I know. However, people are now trying new things. Like they are trying 3d and making the typography edgier. Typography now is being used in games, metallic music, technology (Starrs, 2018). Everything is getting done digitally, which is good in a way. People are getting more into graphic design, unlike your time. What I feel now is it seems people are failing to draw. Saul: I agree with you on that. People are moving away from drawing. So, you see, they are now trying to find a lesser difficult way to do things, instead of facing it directly, and, and, the unfortunate thing is, they can get by with this without it. But they will never be able to learn drawing anymore, as they will get busy with their family, earning money (Boston, 1986). Saul: Alas! I feel bad for the people trying to cheat graphic design and yet become successful, whereas there are far more creative than these bugs but getting no recognition. Wolfgang: The problem is not with the people but the system. Nationalism, culture, it’s all an issue in this matter. Politicians are using graphic designers as their political agenda and paying more. Why do you think they will think creative? Why would they risk their career and their family?Wolfgang: People are giving me credits for the so-called Swiss Typography. But I never wanted this. It was just an accident. I never cared about culture and nationalism. Swiss Typography is not exciting - it is more repetitious. I accidentally happened to be in Basel, the reason why I got recognized (VanderLans, 1994). Wolfgang: You see, I am a teacher, and I have been teaching for quite some time. And I don’t think Switzerland is exciting anymore. There are few graphic designers. And people are blaming me. You tell me how is that my fault, sir? Students come from various countries to Basel for education, and when the course is over, they leave. How am I at fault for this (VanderLans, 1994)? Saul: That’s the problem with society now. The government is not doing anything for the people, the graphic designers. Wolfgang: Before the New Wave, many people made fun of me, tried to demotivate me. But it was my students, Hofmann, Ruder who supported me. I got rejected so many times; the people were against me for doing something new. Now, look at them (VanderLans, 1994). Saul: It’s nice that you didn’t care about them much. Have you heard of the poster The Shining? Wolfgang: Obviously!! Saul: Yeah, that was rejected at first by Kubrick (Gosling, 2015). Wolfgang: What? Really? Saul: But I do not give a damn whether the client understands or, or whether it’s worth anything. But it’s worth it to me. I want to make beautiful designs even if nobody cares unless that’s ugly. Ha-ha (Boston, 1986). But unfortunately, most designers nowadays are working just for money. They believe their client’s words more, but they forget having the degree of education or talent and knowledge towards graphic design. They are scared to do something new: they are afraid of getting rejected. Wolfgang: I hope this does not continue in the future, or else; the graphic design will be in darkness.

Wolfgang: (looking outside the window) I guess the weather is good now. I think you should come with me. It would be an honour. Saul: Sorry, maybe some other time. I am a bit tired. You carry on; this is my number. You can call me anytime. Wolfgang: It was a pleasure talking to you, sir. Take care Wolfgang: (rushes to the station)

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Starrs, S., 2018. Research: 1980’s Typography. [online] SeraphaDesign @OCA. Available at: [Accessed 14 December 2021]. The Academy, 2015. Saul Bass On His Approach To Designing Movie Title Sequences. [online] Medium. Available at: [Accessed 14 December 2021]. VanderLans, R., 1994. Emigre: Essays - An Interview with Wolfgang Weingart. [online] Emigre.com. Available at: [Accessed 14 December 2021].